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1.3.0 2026-08-05 brev Rådata 515150 arkivdokument Statens museer för världskultur - Östasiatiska museet SMVK-OM Dokument http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-OM/arkivdokument/515150 E1A-2_0309-0310, E1A-2_0310, E1A-2_0309 Ö309a OO POY a 18lj Daire Meikakudatr, Dairen 21, Jan. 1928 Prof. B. Karlgren, Department of Sinology, Umbversity of Göteborg, Sweden, Dear. Prof . Karlgren, I must apologize for notracknowledging your kina- ness in sending, me your book. Sound rand Symbol! in! Chinese anda the paper "On ther fubhanblard te of.Tskoch/uan" whieh I: have read with I. great interest and; profit, especially the latter, I I Understand that a part of. the paper. on Ts: och” uan« ha8:been translated into Chihese by” some of. the, students. at. Ts”inghav fors the benefit: of MP3Y Liang Ch” ithao, who has spoken to me:.of it withiwarmiappreciatiöni id I hope yow will” extend the method; to. some, of-the- other: workss the authenticity ofowhieH is still 1å dispute. ; I-haver beenireadingilately Masperö”s "La CKine AAtidue" withiabsorbing interest. .DrebAnderssonowrötelto me saying! tHatiydu Had spoken to him about. .it. very highlys Wibthöutodoubt £t-is practically the first summary of our knowledge oföanctentuChkina cin äcdordänce With Hiodéen scholarship. -Although.the.style-ismnotlas. brillfiant-as we migKtrlexpect from,a French :scholar, sit is perhaps sdue tövthe inherent d4ffisultrtesböf the psubject. -.Itotsoln oshortorathervadsctentific treéatise tHan”a pöpålar history, I cannot schowever help entertatning some döubt avövut the documentary :data.on which he sbasesvhislconelusions > For lexemple gj”. he attributes Yiikung Én Abo late MNestern Chou: Now to say tie ledst, rö is highly improbable. Firfpstly, Yukung mentions iron and possibly steel, the. word OK SATA ag usually interpreted as suck, It is generally agreed by modern Chinese, scholars that iron was not in use before tne time of Chankuo EXN oo vXOU are no dov familter with the passage In Ts” och”Uan in which, it, is. recorded that when the: Lord of Cheng JP went. to ch Ro ne was given a quantity of. bronzZei..- Regretting this gift, the Lord of Chu made the receiver swear not te use 1t for watons. Besides Ylukung ÖSÖNEER 322- iron was mentioned in Mengtsu and Kuantsu. The latter, being spurious, needs not be considered. The time of Mencius was then probably the one in which iron came into general use. In the two Works Wuyueh”unek”iu andYuchkäehshu stories were told of the marvelous sworda invented which could "break bronze and cut jade." It is to be noted tie word "jade" used tober used for instrumental stones. So "jade" here must refer to stone: weapons. used) by the plebian soldiers, wnilst bpronze, being rare at any, time, wasino doubt possessed by the nobles only. If! this,iss thelonly evidence, one might use it to prove that: iron was knownet: an earlier date, Bat Höng HTT my mind the facts: cited aboverare sufficient torestablish the date of the intro- duction. ofi iron, ButbtilIi think we! havecother internal evidence. Even during: the. period. oovereds byc Ts” och”yuan numerous barbarians Were living in the mountains of Shansi, Honan and Shensi. No one has laid moré emphasis on this point than Maspero himself: In/thel time of Western Chou theysmust-have-beenostill moresinseviderice.. Yetoin tne wnole Of NE TS RE mentioned were onlysås föllows: The Island YT FRE of Ch ingsehdou,sIstand Yi of Yangehöu, Sanmlad of Yungehou sand. the Western Jung. -sItoseenms tölmne that triss is alcléar indication: that Yikung was writtenat thectime when the fnäterier bari barians had already been. lärgely absorbed and were no longer -reégarded as such, and when the tribes in the Yangtse valley were sufficlently Sinlanised . to: be taken as oa part of othecCoKinese people. That is pre. cisely klan öllner oc Chankuowo It explains also the ötHerwise mystertous fact that the geographycof the Yangtse valley stould be so well des- eribed in Yuäkungs. Tnis makes me 'ratner: sdoubtful about Prof. Maspero”s theory of. the: editing of: the pre-«existing works by tue officials of Chou» . He: seems to think thet anoula one of” suck broaustk.. As you are well aware, tnis is not the opinion of modern Chinese scholars,. DU The value of rAchiÅ > "Is also very uncertalih. I think that it will, fee : 03104 når require far more research than yet has been:.done before we can separate what is genuine tradition from the later additions. Prof. Maspero”s description of the plebian life based on such material must be considerably modified before we can accept it as anything near the truth, The seasonal change of their mode of living for example seems to me extremely improbably. On the side of omission I think Prof, Maspero, has entirely neglected the southern element of Chinese civilisation; which in the opinion of some of our best scholars played an important part ih the zA cukttural complex of late Chou period, Mr. Ku Chieh-kang/ for Rd Sr has NN oukb that Yu was probably. a southern deitys. I myself: think Så that Shin” was another, both being supposed to have died and buried ån the söuth, The question is far too big to be discussed in a letter ra this, I am only familiar with the ethnographic ;8idesof it. Briefly speaking, the southern culture was essentlally.a rice«water- buffalo complex in contrast to the horse-wheat :complex in the north; The former can be divided into two main branches: the western and the eastern, Chu represents the former, Anthropologically the Chu people were probably allied to the, Lolos,. . They of.all the existing >< southern tribes alone Ppossesses a written language ideographic ih character, They have also l-syllable verses and a considerable amoutit of folk-lore written down. This language. is. not.a. mere imitation of the SRIngRe like that of Hsihsia, but on the contrary,:-must be quite” endient in origin. For in Haubeneköl ke 2 Fe "have. a transliteration of a poem written by one of the western. Szechuan : tribes which I- finde: to be very similar to one of the modern Lolo. dialects. The Lolos again occupy a belt extending from western Szechuan :to-soutHernoHupek and å0g rulers of northern Kuelchou and Hunan although.there. the Miao forms the majority of the tribes, They have wonderful pniysical gqualities and are very brave. They occupy the -berritory fron which >=:, 0310 b. "Ef IN alone bronze göuld be made from native resources. The Lolo culture is undoubbtedly only ”& degéneräted specimen of a more ancient and more splendid one, "IS 18 nöt pröbdble tnét thé people of Chu were their ancient cousins who by adöpting thé northern culture enriched it with ER own? Prof. ”Masperd gives a separate chapter on Kiueh Yuan, the poet, but is it an accident ERet the only true individual poet before Ch/in came from the kingdom: of Chu?” TIne otner branch was that of Wu and Ytieh. Their anthro- pological character is not clear-=> all we know at present is that the present population consists of the most brachycephalic people in China, yoTheiriculture; with 1ts shortsecut hair, tattooing, canoe and -dragonhsboät festival; hås? essentially an odeanic charcter. They alonejhadsarfleet in ånetent time Which even inviaded the northern coast.of Shantung by tHe sea; ”fhey must näve been pioneer traders. Isobt not probable that they in their trading with the people in communication with India wheré ifon was knöwn much sarlier, that they learnt the art of smeltiäåg iron and" forging steel whence came the tale of. .magic swordg? Nothing woula explain better the rapid rise of the ssouth<eastern kingdoms In ancient time than the hypothesis that the» Wu people acquired the iron weapon earlier than the other kingdomsi; This together witH their fleet and sea trade must have given. their marked superiority. "It brings us to the interesting 5 problem of the relation” between” ancient China and ancient India. For in any case the rice-watersbuffalo culture of the Tangtae KERANS must have originated 1 the latter land. ocYou may of course Say that much of the above is mere wild-specula&bon; but lööking fröm the point of view of cul ture- diffusion, the hypotHesis séems tö he moré” in accordance with known facts, It will help us to emphasize the point that ancient NS must be studkled togetner with etntography and äanthropolo If you think the above remarks may | SR ng Maspero, please communicate the content of it to him. Tillverkad Andersson, Johan Gunnar 1928-01-24 Mottagen Karlgren, Bernhard image/jpeg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/tn/10108607/E1A-2_0309a.jpg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/zoom/10108606/E1A-2_0309a.jpg http://kulturarvsdata.se/resurser/License#cc0 Andersson, Johan Gunnar Utgången upphovsrätt image/jpeg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/tn/10108611/E1A-2_0309b.jpg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/zoom/10108610/E1A-2_0309b.jpg http://kulturarvsdata.se/resurser/License#cc0 Andersson, Johan Gunnar Utgången upphovsrätt image/jpeg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/tn/10108615/E1A-2_0310a.jpg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/zoom/10108614/E1A-2_0310a.jpg http://kulturarvsdata.se/resurser/License#cc0 Andersson, Johan Gunnar Utgången upphovsrätt image/jpeg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/tn/10108619/E1A-2_0310b.jpg https://collections.smvk.se/carlotta-om/web/image/zoom/10108618/E1A-2_0310b.jpg http://kulturarvsdata.se/resurser/License#cc0 Andersson, Johan Gunnar Utgången upphovsrätt http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-OM/arkiv/204081 http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-EM/name/1239710 http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-EM/name/3212997 http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-OM/arkivdokument/html/515150 http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-OM/arkivdokument/xml/515150 http://kulturarvsdata.se/SMVK-OM/arkivdokument/rdf/515150
Text i dokument
Ö309a OO POY a 18lj Daire Meikakudatr, Dairen 21, Jan. 1928 Prof. B. Karlgren, Department of Sinology, Umbversity of Göteborg, Sweden, Dear. Prof . Karlgren, I must apologize for notracknowledging your kina- ness in sending, me your book. Sound rand Symbol! in! Chinese anda the paper "On ther fubhanblard te of.Tskoch/uan" whieh I: have read with I. great interest and; profit, especially the latter, I I Understand that a part of. the paper. on Ts: och” uan« ha8:been translated into Chihese by” some of. the, students. at. Ts”inghav fors the benefit: of MP3Y Liang Ch” ithao, who has spoken to me:.of it withiwarmiappreciatiöni id I hope yow will” extend the method; to. some, of-the- other: workss the authenticity ofowhieH is still 1å dispute. ; I-haver beenireadingilately Masperö”s "La CKine AAtidue" withiabsorbing interest. .DrebAnderssonowrötelto me saying! tHatiydu Had spoken to him about. .it. very highlys Wibthöutodoubt £t-is practically the first summary of our knowledge oföanctentuChkina cin äcdordänce With Hiodéen scholarship. -Although.the.style-ismnotlas. brillfiant-as we migKtrlexpect from,a French :scholar, sit is perhaps sdue tövthe inherent d4ffisultrtesböf the psubject. -.Itotsoln oshortorathervadsctentific treéatise tHan”a pöpålar history, I cannot schowever help entertatning some döubt avövut the documentary :data.on which he sbasesvhislconelusions > For lexemple gj”. he attributes Yiikung Én Abo late MNestern Chou: Now to say tie ledst, rö is highly improbable. Firfpstly, Yukung mentions iron and possibly steel, the. word OK SATA ag usually interpreted as suck, It is generally agreed by modern Chinese, scholars that iron was not in use before tne time of Chankuo EXN oo vXOU are no dov familter with the passage In Ts” och”Uan in which, it, is. recorded that when the: Lord of Cheng JP went. to ch Ro ne was given a quantity of. bronzZei..- Regretting this gift, the Lord of Chu made the receiver swear not te use 1t for watons. Besides Ylukung
ÖSÖNEER 322- iron was mentioned in Mengtsu and Kuantsu. The latter, being spurious, needs not be considered. The time of Mencius was then probably the one in which iron came into general use. In the two Works Wuyueh”unek”iu andYuchkäehshu stories were told of the marvelous sworda invented which could "break bronze and cut jade." It is to be noted tie word "jade" used tober used for instrumental stones. So "jade" here must refer to stone: weapons. used) by the plebian soldiers, wnilst bpronze, being rare at any, time, wasino doubt possessed by the nobles only. If! this,iss thelonly evidence, one might use it to prove that: iron was knownet: an earlier date, Bat Höng HTT my mind the facts: cited aboverare sufficient torestablish the date of the intro- duction. ofi iron, ButbtilIi think we! havecother internal evidence. Even during: the. period. oovereds byc Ts” och”yuan numerous barbarians Were living in the mountains of Shansi, Honan and Shensi. No one has laid moré emphasis on this point than Maspero himself: In/thel time of Western Chou theysmust-have-beenostill moresinseviderice.. Yetoin tne wnole Of NE TS RE mentioned were onlysås föllows: The Island YT FRE of Ch ingsehdou,sIstand Yi of Yangehöu, Sanmlad of Yungehou sand. the Western Jung. -sItoseenms tölmne that triss is alcléar indication: that Yikung was writtenat thectime when the fnäterier bari barians had already been. lärgely absorbed and were no longer -reégarded as such, and when the tribes in the Yangtse valley were sufficlently Sinlanised . to: be taken as oa part of othecCoKinese people. That is pre. cisely klan öllner oc Chankuowo It explains also the ötHerwise mystertous fact that the geographycof the Yangtse valley stould be so well des- eribed in Yuäkungs. Tnis makes me 'ratner: sdoubtful about Prof. Maspero”s theory of. the: editing of: the pre-«existing works by tue officials of Chou» . He: seems to think thet anoula one of” suck broaustk.. As you are well aware, tnis is not the opinion of modern Chinese scholars,. DU The value of rAchiÅ > "Is also very uncertalih. I think that it will
fee : 03104 når require far more research than yet has been:.done before we can separate what is genuine tradition from the later additions. Prof. Maspero”s description of the plebian life based on such material must be considerably modified before we can accept it as anything near the truth, The seasonal change of their mode of living for example seems to me extremely improbably. On the side of omission I think Prof, Maspero, has entirely neglected the southern element of Chinese civilisation; which in the opinion of some of our best scholars played an important part ih the zA cukttural complex of late Chou period, Mr. Ku Chieh-kang/ for Rd Sr has NN oukb that Yu was probably. a southern deitys. I myself: think Så that Shin” was another, both being supposed to have died and buried ån the söuth, The question is far too big to be discussed in a letter ra this, I am only familiar with the ethnographic ;8idesof it. Briefly speaking, the southern culture was essentlally.a rice«water- buffalo complex in contrast to the horse-wheat :complex in the north; The former can be divided into two main branches: the western and the eastern, Chu represents the former, Anthropologically the Chu people were probably allied to the, Lolos,. . They of.all the existing >< southern tribes alone Ppossesses a written language ideographic ih character, They have also l-syllable verses and a considerable amoutit of folk-lore written down. This language. is. not.a. mere imitation of the SRIngRe like that of Hsihsia, but on the contrary,:-must be quite” endient in origin. For in Haubeneköl ke 2 Fe "have. a transliteration of a poem written by one of the western. Szechuan : tribes which I- finde: to be very similar to one of the modern Lolo. dialects. The Lolos again occupy a belt extending from western Szechuan :to-soutHernoHupek and å0g rulers of northern Kuelchou and Hunan although.there. the Miao forms the majority of the tribes, They have wonderful pniysical gqualities and are very brave. They occupy the -berritory fron which >=:
0310 b. "Ef IN alone bronze göuld be made from native resources. The Lolo culture is undoubbtedly only ”& degéneräted specimen of a more ancient and more splendid one, "IS 18 nöt pröbdble tnét thé people of Chu were their ancient cousins who by adöpting thé northern culture enriched it with ER own? Prof. ”Masperd gives a separate chapter on Kiueh Yuan, the poet, but is it an accident ERet the only true individual poet before Ch/in came from the kingdom: of Chu?” TIne otner branch was that of Wu and Ytieh. Their anthro- pological character is not clear-=> all we know at present is that the present population consists of the most brachycephalic people in China, yoTheiriculture; with 1ts shortsecut hair, tattooing, canoe and -dragonhsboät festival; hås? essentially an odeanic charcter. They alonejhadsarfleet in ånetent time Which even inviaded the northern coast.of Shantung by tHe sea; ”fhey must näve been pioneer traders. Isobt not probable that they in their trading with the people in communication with India wheré ifon was knöwn much sarlier, that they learnt the art of smeltiäåg iron and" forging steel whence came the tale of. .magic swordg? Nothing woula explain better the rapid rise of the ssouth<eastern kingdoms In ancient time than the hypothesis that the» Wu people acquired the iron weapon earlier than the other kingdomsi; This together witH their fleet and sea trade must have given. their marked superiority. "It brings us to the interesting 5 problem of the relation” between” ancient China and ancient India. For in any case the rice-watersbuffalo culture of the Tangtae KERANS must have originated 1 the latter land. ocYou may of course Say that much of the above is mere wild-specula&bon; but lööking fröm the point of view of cul ture- diffusion, the hypotHesis séems tö he moré” in accordance with known facts, It will help us to emphasize the point that ancient NS must be studkled togetner with etntography and äanthropolo If you think the above remarks may | SR ng Maspero, please communicate the content of it to him.
Typ av dokument
Arkivdokument-ID
Tidigare identitet
Tillverkad
Andersson, Johan Gunnar
Mottagen
Karlgren, Bernhard
Utgången upphovsrätt